Warlock/Wizard, Duergar Part 2, and Session Zero Talk

Episode Discussion

Show Notes

Warlock: These weird casters get their powers from a pact with a greater being. Unlike clerics there’s no connection to a god though. Usually a fey being, a demon, eldritch being, or celestial being. Mechanically they get a lot less spell slots but they all come back on a short rest.

Wizards: Really the opposite end of the spell caster spectrum. They get their power through hard work and studying. Wizards also get tons and tons of spells and ways to learn new ones. They have a ton of spell slots and a way to at least get some back on a short rest.

MC requirements are Cha 13 and Int 13

First thoughts: Interesting RP options. But mechanically there is not much synergy due to the main 2 classes spell stats being different.

Both classes are considered great 1 level dips.

Wizards get you a lot of spells, cantrips, and ritual casting

Warlock gives light armor and cantrips

1 Level dip into warlock is usually not enough. You get so much from a level 2.

Mechanically, a straight wizard is going to be better every single time than justifying a 1-2 warlock dip.

That said a delay in spell progression always feels a bit overblown. Not getting your higher spell slot for a couple of levels usually doesn’t change that much. It just hurts to see.

Kevin: It is generally easier to get dex higher to use that if you want to make a gish over charisma as that helps your AC as well.

Jarred argues it’s not impossible to get at minimum +3 on Int and Cha starting at level 1. Then from there you may not have both stats in 20 right away, but they are at the very least serviceable. And if you get the eldritch innovations that are focusing on battlefield control then you may not care as much about the damage aspects of it as much as you are setting up for AOEs.

Will argues that it’s just a justification for EB. Will, is actually not very smart.

Both classes have some synergy in a baked in desire for more power. Usually thought different means. The wizard focuses on power through knowledge. The warlock is the easy way out. A concept that works is a wizard who struggled to get past a knowledge brick wall and entered into a deal with a patron in order to get them through that wall. They can reflect this with a few warlock levels.

Wizards are also very often exposed to this type of magic. And warlocks may pursue more traditional magic. Both are fitting.

Some other ideas. Divination wizard who finds more than they bargain for and is corrupted by a Great Old One Patron.

Necromancer Wizard who accidentally meets Orcus.

Also a charismatic wizard isn’t usually what people go for. It’s normally dexterity or wis or con. But charisma is breaking from that traditional wizard role and could be really fun to play. Even if it’s not as great mechanically as taking dex for your AC.

Bladesong discussion: It is at least a little bit beneficial. It focuses on Int a lot so a small dip from warlock (probably hexblade) into bladesong has pros and cons.

If you have at least +3 int you’re getting some nice AC and don’t need a shield. +3 to to your Concentration checks. If you go variant human you can get your war caster or resilient with Con as your choice. You are making a martial character out of 2 full casters which always feels gross. But at least you will never fail a concentration check.

The stats are a little hard to balance, but this will not be nearly as bad as something like a wizard monk or a paladin ranger.

In a way you can get all of the pacts. If you are wizard you’re kinda pact of the tome. If you’re bladesinging you’re now pact of the blade. And then you go Pact of the Chain. Pact of the Blade invocations are so good that it is a little tough to miss out on though if you are trying to be a gish.

Something does hurt about talking about 2 spell casters and determining that the best overlap is a martial class.

Other wizard subclasses just aren’t that fitting. Evocation doesn’t help warlock at all. Enchantment just isn’t too great in combat and still doesn't really mesh with warlock.

Hexblade war magic has some benefit. As long as you keep the war mage dip at 2 levels.

How to make War Magic a little better. I definitely see this being a class that if remade would be tied to your proficiency bonus.

Overall the 1 level dip in wizard does help expand your versatility. But there is an easy way for a warlock to get a spell book. And that comes from the Pact of the Tome. But it’s just ritual spells.

Some people do make Warlocks INT casters. This matches with 2 int, 2 wis, and 2 charisma casters.

The argument is that you need INT to understand these deals and to make the bond with a patron. The argument for CHA is that you need to have a strong force of self in order to channel the power given to you.

There is some question as to what makes Clerics WIS. Final conclusion is that your god is in no way trying to exert power over you. But your understanding of the world in a sage like fashion is what allows you to draw more power from them.