Paladin: Half caster Half martial class, given power by an oath. They hold so much conviction they can even turn that power into pure energy in the form of smites. Str 13 Cha 13
Fighter: The trained combatant, fighters are one of the only classes that truly highlight the amount of work it takes to accurately swing a sword 8 times in 6 seconds. Str or Dex 13 to MC into
First thoughts: Will: This makes lots of sense and will probably be really good. But hates Battlemaster. Just...in general cause it’s real good.
Kevin: Unless you take them both to 5, it is really hard to mess this up. There may be a few subclasses that aren’t great. But in general it’s good. You know it’s good. But the RP is a bit boring.
Jarred: Used to play this MC. Didnt feel like much was added taking fighter for 3 levels at 8 levels in paladin. Was a little disappointed that he didn’t do much around this from a story perspective.
Going into fighter later can be a rejection of their oath. Why would a paladin take a break from their oath?
This doesnt NEED the justification, so to some extent you have to thrust the flavor on it.
Fighter then going into paladin, is a little more baked in. Once you go paladin and stick with it, you have taken on an oath that was a huge choice to take.
Paladins very often seem like “better” fighters. Most likely a fighter will consistently out damage a paladin, at least across the day. In a single fight, a paladin will most likely burst better.
Paladin auras vs indomitable, which is better? Kevin says indomitable, Jarred says auras. FIGHT.
With time Kevin is whittled down (due to it being a 9th level ability on a long rest) and Auras win.
Small dip of 2 into Paladin is probably not worth it. Few lay on hands points, 2 divine smite castings at the lowest level.
Going into Paladin without having an Oath is really weird.
3 levels is a lot more reasonable. The Channel Divinity you get can be super useful. Vengeance is one of the best.
What ARE the first 2 levels of paladin? If you don’t declare an oath it feels so weird.
“A paladin is just a fighter who cares about someone besides themselves”
It can make sense if they’re a religious warrior. 2 level is like a brief start to the relationship. Level 3 is where things get serious though.
Going into fighter could also mean you failed your oath. And allows your paladin to dabble in a more hedonistic life style. They focus on themselves for a little bit and it gives them a period of introspection where they come out the other side with 3 levels in fighter and a stronger connection to their Oath.
The point of this podcast is never to avoid the mechanics. Of course we want to optimize a little. But at least we can give some reasons for the optimization beyond hand waiving.
Battlemaster: More of a tactical fighter. It’s superiority dice really come out as mini smites and minor battlefield control.
Samurai: They fit as an “honor” warrior and their 3rd level ability gets them advantage on all attacks that turn. Which can be really nice if they want to action surge. Give them more chances to crit and overall just hit more. Flavor wise it’s not a stretch at all.
Overall, if you are already at fighter level 5 and then go to paladin, I could see going to and past level 5 in paladin for the increase in spell level and auras in the future.
Eldritch Knight: Probably not too great. The weapon bond is alright. Probably not worth an entire subclass choice for. You get some cantrips that use your intelligence mod so that’s going to be tough. It can let you have booming blade as a cantrip and shield maybe.
Arcane Archer: Would be a total waste. You can’t smite off of it. Stop trying to be good at everything
Cavalier: Totally perfect. Unwavering mark lets you be a bit of a tank. Paladin spell casting gets you a Find Steed. Cavalier gives you benefits to riding a horse. It’s really easy.
Champion: Kinda dull but helps with extra crits.
Echo Knight: Jarred is quite against the flavor of this. “Why a paladin would get involved in dunamancy, I have no idea. But it works really well mechanically”
An Echo into Paladin does make sense and works like any other fighter into paladin MC.
Kevin explains that an Echo Knight could be obsessed with fixing something in their past and so they get into Dunamancy.
Lastly you can smite through the Echo as well as get opportunity attacks with it.
The Paladin subclasses all work just fine. Vengeance is great, oath of glory is great.
Overall, it’s good! It’s a good multiclass with very few traps aside from Arcane Archer.
Will “Everyone is just gonna be a f****in battle master”