Barbarian/Rogue and the Yochlol


Kevin: So the “Ancestrial” Guardian barbarian when they’re…

Jarred: I’m sorry, I’m sorry, did you say incest-ral?

Will: Yes, I believe this Barbarian has a thing for his sister

Kevin: (laughs) Did I really say incest-ral?

Will: Incestual barbarian that’s what Kevin’s, uh, currently building

Kevin: (enunciating carefully) Ancestrial”. Am I talking fast? Am I doing that thing again?

Will: “Onii-chan, no ecchi”

Jarred: (laughing) Just gotta enunciate. “Ancestral”

Kevin and Will: (slow and deliberate pronunciation) “Ancestral”


Kevin: Welcome to Monster’s and Multiclass, your weekly Dungeons and Dragons fix between your play sessions. I’m Kevin Ode

Jarred: I’m Jarred Bournigal

Will: And I’m Will Meldon

Kevin: And we’ll be hanging out with ya for the next hour to discuss anything and everything Dungeons and Dragons related. This is episode number three. We’ll be taking a look at the Rogue/Barbarian, and then digging into the Yochlol… demon from the Monster Manual. So take a seat and stick around.


Kevin: (quietly performing a capella of an unknown song) I don’t know what that is.

Will: I still think we need to use that. “Han-ya ein-ya zong” I love that song

Kevin: That we always fight to?

Will: Yeah. It’s so bad. What the fuck is she saying. “En-ga yen-ga weii-ga”

Jarred: Alright, so, I’d like to start off today with the usual: some first impressions. Uh as Kevin mentioned in our intro, I’m personally not too excited by this. Rogue/Barbarian synergy… it doesn’t sound like it’s gonna work out great. Uh Kevin is gonna completely own me though. So, give us some first impressions Kevin. Why are you excited?

Kevin: So initially I was on the same page as you. I thought, “Strength and Dex, and.. sneaky and getting Sneak Attack and Sneak Attack can’t work with strength weapons” and stuff like that. But I think you can make some really cool characters and pull off some cool combos. I’m not saying this is an optimized character thing; we never go for optimization. Just, cool character concepts with some unique combinations. Which I can dig into now but… [well: could be Will, but well makes more sense grammatically: 2:08], what’s your first thoughts, you guys?

Will: Well as the uh… Less intellectual and more handsome member of the group, I generally like to stick to RP.  Uh D&D to me is not numbers, it’s not trying hard, it’s uh… just having fun. And quite frankly this flavor doesn’t do much for me. There… the problem is whenever I think of a Barbarian, and a Rogue, I think of two almost polar opposite buddies. Who are… just they approach everything differently but they are the best of friends and they make a great addition to the adventuring party.

Jarred: So what you’re saying is…

Will: (interrupting) Now you want to smash them together and ruin both their, uh, unique flavors.

Jarred: So what you’re saying is this needs to be someone with a split personality.

Will: Uh, no. I think both classes are too dumb to actually justify a split personality. So it’s just gonna be a forced personality in my personal, non-mechanical opinion.

Jarred: Okay, well, with that, Kevin, seeing as you have so much pent up discussion in your heart just go ahead. [Take us away: sounds a bit like there’s another word in there: 03:07]

Kevin: Well, it’s not much. I have like two ideas, but…

Jarred: (laughs)

Will: This was a huge mistake

Jarred: (laughs more) Well, let’s hear at least one of them.

Kevin: So, with the… (sighs). I-I-I understand how they seem like polar opposites. “How can this work?” I-I really love the idea of a character who comes off as the typical barbarian. Make em, like, a half-orc, they’re a big dumb brute with a two handed weapon. But then they have this, underhanded, sneaky side to them that they keep hidden. That they can pull out whenever they need. Um, and especially with, like, Barbarian, by level five you get two attacks. So, you can do shit like, “Surprise dagger to the kidneys!”. So, I mean and you get...

Jarred and Will: (interrupts with laughter)

Will: That usually does hurt.

Kevin: Yes! No, exactly. So, y-you have, uh, orc barbarian that has a maul or a greatsword charging at somebody. They take a big whack out of em with that weapon, and then they pull out a dagger from somewhere. It’s easy enough to have a dagger anywhere on your body. You would probably have a whole bunch of em, cause they’re gonna be strong, cause they’re a barbarian. And then that dagger, all of a sudden, out of  nowhere, shanks em in the side, and that triggers Sneak Attack.

Jarred: Yeah, but can you do that as your second attack? Er, Extra Attack?

Kevin: I don’t see why not. I don’t think it says anything about switching weapons or not. I know there’s a whole thing about dropping weapons, but, so, alright. You have a two-handed weapon. You let go with one hand, and that weapon… So you still have control over it. And then you have the other hand to just quickly pull out a dagger and “boom”. And that’s a Finesse weapon, and as we’ve talked about previously Sneak Attack has to be a Finesse weapon. But, it doesn’t have to be using Dex. So, Finesse allows you to use Dex or Strength.

Jarred: Right so…

Kevin: (interrupting) So a Shortsword, a Rapier, a Dagger, what have you, they’re all Finesse and will trigger Sneak Attack but you can still utilize your Strength.

Will: Ouu

Kevin: To hit em.

Will: Kevin is coming in with this.

Kevin: Yeah!

Will: Cause now that I think about it, Barbarians don’t dump Dex anyways.

Jarred: Right…

Kevin: No.

Will: So anything you might need as a Rogue with Dex, you’ve already got. And you can attack with your main stat as Strength. That’s pretty good.

Jarred: Yeah.

Will: And, mechanically speaking, switching your weapons for your second attack does not work out in your favor.... Unless you’ve got a Sneak Attack behind it.

Kevin: Yeah. And, it’s also, but just like, a dagger? Like, like, a big, dumb… a big strong - their intelligence doesn’t really matter too much in their ability to hold daggers - a big strong Barbarian, theycould have like six daggers on them at any point in time, easily accessible.

Jarred: Daggers are also able to be thrown.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: Which could be good if you just can’t make that, uh… Make it out far enough.

Kevin: Right.

Jarred: And instead of relying on Javelins like Barbarians normally do you can get that thrown dagger.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: Which, could be kinda nice.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, and then when you stab em with the dagger, you don’t need to worry about re-sheathing that or anything because it’s just a dagger.

Jarred: Yeah, just, leave it.

Kevin: Just leave it in em! Let go of it!

Will: From a tactical perspective, removing the dagger is usually gonna be your best bet. Uh, the blood flow is usually impeded by the bladed weapon.

Kevin: ...Thank you Will...that’s...

Jarred: D&D is not a physics simulator.

Will: This is more of a medical simulator kind of thing that I’m going for.

Jarred and Kevin: (laughs)

Will: This is for anyone who dreams of one day stabbing someone in real life. Just remember, pull it out or they’ll probably stay alive.

Kevin: Okay. And then you have Reckless Attack. Which you get at, it’s just like level 2 Barbarian. Maybe even… yeah level two. So on the beginning of your turn you can choose to attack recklessly and give yourself Advantage. The drawback is that then any attack on you has advantage. But, a Rogue attacking with Advantage automatically gets Sneak Attack.

Jarred: And, Disengage as a Bonus Action.

Kevin: Exactly! Yep a Barbarian with Cunning Action is some scary, scary shit.

Jarred: Damn, that’s a very mobile barbarian.

Kevin: Yes. And to take it even further, you need um… I think Barbarian five and Rogue… Just Rogue two for Cunning Action. And then do the “Ancestrial” Guardian barbarian I came up with this whole little cool combo. So the “Ancestrial” Guardian barbarian when they’re…

Jarred: (interrupting) I’m sorry, I’m sorry, did you say incest-ral?

Will: Yes, I believe this Barbarian has a thing for his sister

Kevin: (laughs) Did I really say incest-ral?

Will: “Incestual Barbarian” that’s what Kevin’s, uh, currently building

Kevin: (enunciating carefully) Ancestrial”. Am I talking fast? Am I doing that thing again?

Will: “Onii-chan, no ecchi”

Jarred: (laughing) Just gotta enunciate. “Ancestral”

Kevin and Will: (slow and deliberate pronunciation) “Ancestral”

Kevin: (clears throat, then enunciates carefully) “Ancestral”, barbarian, the, uh… When they first go that route, I think at level three, when they’re raging the first attack of a turn will send their Ancestral Spirits on whatever they attack. And then that hampers that target. So then for the rest of that turn, that creature will have Disadvantage on anybody it attacks except for the Barbarian. And if it manages to hit someone else, that person has Resistance to any damage they cause.

Jarred: So that really, really benefits you to just get out of there…

Kevin: (interrupts) Exactly. So…

Jarred: (interrupts) Make it kinda their only option unless they wanna invoke an Opportunity Attack.

Kevin: So you Recklessly attack, ya know, two handed weapon, slash the shit out of em, surprise dagger to the kidneys, um, get Sneak Attack off of it, Disengage as a Bonus Action, and because Barbarians also move faster by level five you can probably run back 40 feet. And there’s a really good chance whatever you just did that to - who now really needs to attack you otherwise they’re kinda gimped - can’t reach you. Most monsters seem to cap at 30. Obviously that’s not always the case and there’s always ways around it, but, I think it’s a really cool combo.

Jarred: Yeah, and not to Min-Max this one too much, it might even be good to Hold if you roll high in the Initiative order and let one of your other melee combatants get up close. Where then, once they are up close you charge in, do that Sneak Attack combo, and then get out of there. Uh, so that way they now have to provoke an Opportunity Attack to run towards you.

Kevin: Yeah absolutely.

Jarred: Unless they want to Disengage which means they’re not going to take any attack that turn.

Kevin: Right.

Will: Unless they’re a Rogue/Barbarian.

Jarred: (laughing) Unless they are also a Rogue/Barbarian. Uh, which there’s not going to be very many of, so mechanically speaking we’ve got a very solid base, but, let’s talk about RP. I mean, why would a Rogue/Barbarian also have this, uh, ancestral obsession.

Kevin: So when it comes to that with Rogues, especially Rogues, there’s not really a lot of detail given about “Why are they a Rogue? What’s the source of their power?” They’re just sneaky, they have some martial prowess through just standard training. It’s on the same level as a Fighter. They’re not, it’s not like all fighters have been trained in the gladiatorial arena or were soldiers. They just, they have martial prowess, they train up to it. Rogue is the same way. So you can really mix that with anything. You have the classic barbarian out in a tribe that honors their ancestors a lot, and this particular one seems to have a little more dexterous than the rest, and just has some additional skills that they decided to train up.

Jarred: But we’re also talking sneakiness.

Will: Uh not necessarily.

Kevin: You don’t have to-

Jarred: (interrupting) What do you mean not necessarily? The main class feature is Sneak Attack.

Will: A, uh-

Kevin: (interrupting) Which doesn’t-

Will: (interrupting) That was a misnomer. B, I would argue that no, a tribal barbarian is never going to acquire the skills a Rogue really needs.  And, he, any even casual glance at a Rogue, you really gotta force it to have somebody who did not grow up in the city end up as a Rogue. The more realistic thing is a Barbarian type who did end up kinda in the criminal underworld.

Kevin: Sure.

Will: Someone who - and this is going back to anime archetypes -

Jarred: Ouu my favorite.

Will: The huge buff guy who’s, uh, quicker than he looks.

Jarred: Ohgh (moaning in a good way?)

Will: That’s a good archetype.

Kevin: Sure.

Jarred: It is, especially once he takes off his uh, entire vest of daggers, he’ll be so much quicker.

Will: It’s like, nobody sees it coming. It’s like, “Oh, what’s that guy, he’s just a big dumb brute.” But no he’s actually the boss. And that little guy you were talking to? Just a front. And when you go to attack him because you think you’re so fast he’s like “Nope.” It’s perfect.

Jarred: Okay-

Will: (interrupting) In anime D&D.

Jarred: (laughs) In anime D&D yes. So that’s one way. We’ve got a Barbarian who enters into the, uh, seedy underbelly of a city let’s say, something along those lines. A thieve’s guild. Uh can we think of a way that it works the other way? Where they’re a Rogue and then become a Barbarian?

Kevin: So depending on the Subclass you choose for Barbarian, a lot of them are very much flavored to that kind of, uh, almost shamanistic feeling. Totem Warrior, Ancestral Guardian, Storm Herald barbarian.

Jarred: Right. Zealot.

Kevin: Um, well Zealot’s a little unique so we’ll put a pin in that. The Frenzy one, um, or Berserk I don’t remember-

Jarred: (cutting in) Berserk yeah.

Kevin: (continuing) the exact name. That, that really doesn’t have any tie back to like, tribal, shamanistic life. Or anything like that. They just Rage and go fucking nuts.

Jarred: So-

Kevin: (interrupting) Unfortunately, that Subclass is not… the greatest.

Jarred: No it’s definitely not. Uh, I-I mean I get what you’re saying though, it could just be a Rogue with a temper.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: Yeah that’s fine. Uh, what do they get. They can enter into a Frenzy, where they can make a melee attack as a Bonus Action. And… wow when they end their Rage they suffer one level of Exhaustion.

Kevin: There you go.

Will: That was always the downfall of that particular class.

Jarred: Yeah.

Kevin: It’s like, the benefit you get is great, the Bonus Action attack while Raging. The penalty to it is too much.

Jarred: Way too much.

Will: I would argue that it can fit into a campaign. If you’re not Min-Maxing it’s like, “We got this absolute monster of a Berserker on our team, and he can go ham. But he’s not very useful afterwards.

Jarred: “I’m sorry master”-

Will: (interrupting) Especially if there’s a second one.

Jarred: (containing laughter) “I’m sorry master, I have to go all out, just this once.”

All: (stifled laughter)

Jarred: That’s basically what we have with that. And he’s, he’s gonna get Exhaustion of course, as you said after the second one it’s gonna be really, really debilitating. Uh, I mean how many Rages do they even get… So, I mean, if they’re Raging six times, that can outright kill em. (laughs)

Will: Is there a Capstone that’s like, “Hey, you can’t kill yourself by getting too mad” ?

Jarred: No!

Will: (laughs)

Kevin: I don’t think so.

Will: The man literally too angry to die

Kevin: Yeah they get Mindless Rage so that they can’t be Charmed or Frightened. Intimidating Presence so they can Frighten people while Raging.

Jarred: That’s actually funny because at 20th level they get unlimited Rages, but they don’t get unlimited “ignore exhaustions”. I haven’t really thought about that one too much but, that’s… kind of a terrible Subclass.

Will: You don’t have to go into Ultra-Rage though.

Kevin: That’s true.

Will: That’s what you have to keep in mind.

Kevin: It’s a choice.

Jarred: Oh! Oh that’s just a- the Frenzy is like a Rage plus?

Kevin: Yes.

Jarred: Okay. That’s a little bit more reasonable

Will: (talking over Jarred) And it turns you into the only thing able to hit more than a Fighter if I’m not mistaken.

Jarred: Yeah, I mean, that’s, obviously going to be a-

Will: (interrupting) As much as a Fighter.

Kevin: Doesn’t Fighter get up to four attacks by 17th level?

Will: Then Barbarian gets three and then don’t you get an extra with the Relentless?

Kevin: I thought they only get two.

Jarred: They only get two. Where are you getting three?

Will: (interrupting) They only get two?

Kevin: Yeah, and then the Bonus Action brings it up to three.

Will: (whistles)

Kevin: Yeah Fighters are kind of insane in that sense.

Jarred: They just get them Brutal Criticals.

Will: And huge damage bonuses with their Rage.

Jarred: Right it’s, I mean it’s just plus two flat out with Rage right?

Will: ...Is it?

Jarred: We should at least know the basics behind Rage guys.

Kevin: The damage?

Jarred: Yeah.

Kevin: Doesn’t, it goes up. Based on, go flip over to the… table. Rage damage by level.

Jarred: Oh hey. Okay so at 9th level it goes up to three. I mean it’s really not that much.

Kevin: Mhmm

Jarred: I mean obviously over the course of a campaign every Rage hit’s gonna be great. But, it only goes up to plus four max.

Kevin: Right.

Jarred: Uh, still, still worthwhile. And it’s good that it adds something. Uh, so, Ancestral Guardian, that looks pretty good. Uh, what other Barbarian classes are we thinking? How about Zealot? You said “put a pin in that.”

Kevin: So uh, just, this isn’t really a multiclass discussion, just, the Zealot is kinda… to me interesting. It’s sort of a standout. And from an RP perspective of the Barbarian, where the rest of them, either you have the… Berserk Frenzy one… yeah Path of the Berserker, which is kind of just an inner thing that can be from whatever. Then you have a bunch of stuff that lead back to a tribal, shamanistic life. And then you have the Zealot. Wh-Whi-Which just fits a little oddly I think. Um, like you can have a religious Zealot barbarian. Like it’s a Barbarian to, like, the god of Bahamut. Or, I’m drawing a blank on other ones.

Jarred: Tons of other ones, it doesn’t matter

Will: Probably not Bahamut.

Jarred: Well-

Kevin: (interrupting) Yeah that’s dragons but…

Jarred: But, Path of the Storm Herald is basically the same thing.

Will: Hmm…

Kevin: Is it?

Will: I would say not at all, even a little. I would say that would be so incorrect that is borders on just retarded.

Jarred: You’re saying that it’s not also spiritual?

Will: No, it’s about storms man.

Jarred: No that’s fine, I understand that. Obviously the class features are entirely different. I’m saying the flavor behind it, you can also be worshipping a god for Storm Herald and your powers come from your god. That’s not totally off base here.

Will: Well no it doesn’t say anything about that. It’s mainly uh, channeling the abilities of the harshest environments in the world. It’s like, uh, a really mad weather enthusiast.

Jarred: Ouu, angry weatherman. That’s, that’s gonna be the play here.

Will: “I call this attack the Low Pressure Zone!” (explosion sound effect)

Kevin: Can we talk about how terrible Storm Herald is though?

Jarred: I-

Will: (interrupting) No we can’t-

Kevin: (interrupting) Mechanically I hate it.

Will: Because everybody says that. But the reality is that every single one of these things should not be a choice. They should be interchangeable.

Jarred: (deep breath) My-

Kevin: (interrupts) What do you mean?

Will: You have to choose each level, each thing you get in this stupid class you’re like “Oh am I gonna go desert, am I gonna go sea, am I gonna go tundra.” Half of them are worthless. And none of them mesh together in a flavorful way.

Jarred: No, yeah no.

Will: If you choose to Min-Max this stuff, it’s like, it’s like a gimped version of the tribal Barbarian.

Jarred: Right, but I mean, a lot of the Barbarian classes kind of fall behind the Totem Warrior, in my opinion. I mean all the other ones, they’re more flavorful than the Totem Warrior. But at the end of the day the Bear Totem just kicks everything out of the water.

Will: Yeah and that’s what I would argue the Storm Herald tries to follow in the path of the Totem Barbarian, and just utterly drops the ball.

Jarred: Right. I’d definitely argue that it’s, it’s more flavorful. I really like it as a class, but, mechanically, it’s just - as you said - not very great. I mean, being able to add an extra d6 or, what is it, 2d6 at a much higher level? At 10th level. I mean that’s just nothing.

Will: No, it’s… you make a lot of choices and none of them are good.

Jarred: Right and I don’t even like the idea of switching between them, uh…

Will: Right that ruins the flavor for me.

Jarred: Right, cause usually you’re going to start off by being like “I’m a Barbarian of the desert!” And then mid-way through you’re like, “Actually the ability to breathe underwater sounds nice.” Like that’s just immediately Min-Maxing. There’s no flavor behind it.

Kevin: “I’m an equal opportunity environment zealot. “

Jarred: Then you’re just a meteorologist.

All: (laughing)

Will: At least with the totmes it’s like, “Oh I’m gonna choose a different totem animal to pledge my allegiance to.” This one’s like, “Uh I like the desert! I like the sea! The tundra seems cool this time!” It’s like, “No, you’re just an asshole”.

All: (laughing)

Will: You have no loyalty to any of these extreme environments. And as a weather enthusiast myself that’s just unacceptable.

Jarred: (laughs loudly) Will “Shoulda Been a Meteorologist” Meldon.

Will: (sighs) I woulda been so good on TV.

Kevin: And then to talk further synergy, the… there’s a… these two classes together can get very tanky. So, Rogues actually, even though it’s not actually part of the archetype have a surprising amount of things to help them mitigate damage between um, uh, what’s it called? They have Evasion, and then, I can’t remember the name of it, where you can use your Reaction to take half damage. So, right there that helps a lot with survivability.

Will: That’s later in the game right?

Kevin: Mid-level. Evasion is at seven, and then, something about “dodge”. Artful Dodge?

Jarred: (talking over Kevin) Elusive? At 18?

Kevin: No, not Elusive. It’s much lower than that. Uncanny Dodge.

Will: Uncanny Dodge.

Jarred: Oh!

Kevin: At 5th level. And then...

Jarred: (interrupting) Oh yeah yeah yeah.

Kevin: And then Evasion at 7th level, that’s where if you make a Dex Save where it says “If you succeed take half damage” and you succeed you take no damage. And if you fail you still take half damage.

Jarred: Which of course goes great with Danger Sense.

Kevin: Yes, yeah.

Will: Which is, is that…?

Jarred: You get Advantage on Dexterity Saving Throws against effects you can see.

Will: Oof!

Kevin: Mhm.

Jarred: So, I mean they have Advantage and…

Will: (talking over Jarred) So that’s one of those things that looks like it overlaps but it just synergizes.

Jarred: Yes, very very well.

Kevin: Yeah. And then go uh… Bear-barian totem, thing.

Jarred: Yeah.

Will: Bear-bearian.

Kevin: Yeah, where you get Resistance, while Raging, Resistance against all damage types except for Psychic. And the-then that pick, paired with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion, is a very tanky character.

Jarred: Right because it doesn’t even say you get Resistance to the damage type, you halve the attack’s damage against you.

Kevin: Right.

Jarred: I have to double check which happens first. Do you halve it and then… does it matter? And then get Resistance? Or get Resistance…?

Kevin: It doesn’t matter I don’t think.

Will: It doesn’t mathematically matter but it’s like a subsequent thing. You halve it and then you halve it again.

Jarred: Right, because, normally if you have (clears throat) Resistance in two different ways, then you just have a flat out resistance.

Will: Well what you have to keep in mind is that any kind of damage type outside of a normal attack, it’s probably not going to be split by that...uh… Uncanny Dodge. So if you get like Mind Blast-ed by something ya know that overcomes both of them you don’t get to just be like “Oh, shit.”

Jarred: What do you mean? I don’t see anything saying that Uncanny Dodge wouldn’t halve that attack.

Will: If it’s a Saving Throw as opposed to an Attack.

Jarred: Oh, okay. Okay, that’s fair.

Will: So that’s what a lot, that’s what a lot of things are gonna come out to.

Jarred: Okay.

Will: Any kind of Cantrip or Attack rolled against you yeah, that would be halved and then halved.

Jarred: Alright, so, making our way through, I mean, it seems like, really, Barbarian’s got a lot of subclasses that work well. All of their main stats or, main uh class features go up pretty well. How about Rogue archetypes? Did you think any on that?

Kevin: So, the two of them, and it’s kind of the same thing as we discussed with the Monk/Rogue, with the Inquisitive and Mastermind. They’re subclasses that aren’t, they have a lot of out-of-combat utility and are very flavorful, and then, matching them with a Barbarian can kinda up their combat utility as well. And make them more viable.

Will: At the cost of some Multi Attribute Dependence. Those two, they uh, add more to the Bonus Action Economy, and they do generally add a minor stat requirement for true effectiveness. They’re not necessarily bad but I think you could do better.

Kevin: Yeah um…

Will: (interrupting) As long as you don’t do Arcane Trickster.

Jarred: Yeah I would, uh…

Will: (interrupting) Never roll Arcane Trickster.

Jarred: I can’t think of a reason to.

Kevin: No. Cause, yeah, you can’t cast spells while…

Jarred: (interrupting) No, I’d honestly rather do a Rogue/Wizard multiclass, in like, any situation. (laughs)

Kevin: Right.

Jarred: Um.

Kevin: Assassin, generally pairs well. Um..

Jarred: Yeah…

Kevin: Flavor wise it meshes with that big brute that’s hiding the underhanded side of him or herself.

Jarred: Right.

Kevin: Cause a lot of this uh, Assassin stuff um, when you, when you first read it I think of, I know my initial thing was, it’s like a, you have this sneaking through the shadows and leaping out and stabbing someone and disappearing. And it’s actually more about infiltration.

Jarred: I mean isn’t Thief more about infiltration?

Will: Thief…

Kevin: Uh...

Jarred: Oh you mean, you mean infiltration of like, more than infiltrating a house. You’re saying like...

Kevin: (talking over each other) Yeah. Yeah you wanna go assassinate someone so you impersonate someone else to get close to them.

Jarred: Right. Like a bodyguard. Eh? Cause you’re a big dude.

Kevin: There you go. Actually yeah that’s a really cool play. Where, so y-you have that thing we've been talking about, the brute who is the roguish, whatever, and lives life as an assassin, and his whole thing to do is get hired on as a bodyguard.

Jarred: That really only works once or twice.

Kevin: You think? Cause it’s not like they have the internet or…

Will: (interrupting) The criminal underworld especially does not spread rumors like that, so…

Jarred: No, that’s

Will: (talking over each other) “No man, don’t hire bodyguards that are huge and also kinda sneaky”

Jarred and Kevin: (laughs)

Jarred: Okay. That’s fair. I guess all bodyguards are supposed to be huge.

Will: They also don’t have the internet so it’s like low information transmission abilities.

Jarred: Right. And you can create an entire new identity for yourself and have a full fleshed out history, and they’re not looking for that.

Will: Regardless, Assassin is just like a universally great Rogue archetype. It’s one of the few that came out of this book that we’re just like, “That is a perfect Rogue.”

Jarred: You know what I like? Uh, the level three ability, Assassinate.

Will: That’s just ridiculous.

Jarred: It’s really good! But on top of that, any creature that is surprised with this attack is a Critical Hit. You have that mixed with Brutal Criticals, is always gonna be really nice.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: I mean any chance that you can get a critical as a Barbarian is just to the moon. But this is really good. Really good combination there.

Kevin: It’s to the moon?

Jarred: To the moooooon.

Kevin: Like, no people use that anymore.

Will: They don’t. That’s a pretty antiquated phrase.

Kevin: (laughs)

Will: Jarred the 30 year old Boomer coming in with the uh, coming in with the old stuff. The good stuff.

Jarred: I’m keeping it.

Will: The D&D Advanced Edition stuff

Kevin and Jarred: (chuckling)

Jarred: So, I guess, I guess you got me here Kevin. I’m a little bit shocked but they do work out pretty well together. Uh, as, I dunno if we said in here so far, they’re only needing a 13 in Strength and a 13 in Dex. Dex is of course gonna be at least 13 and Strength there’s no reason not to throw it on there as well. Uh I guess the only thing you’re missing out is you’re getting an Extra Attack but you only have one chance at a Sneak Attack. Um, also have to follow all those other rules of having a companion within five feet, uh, which can honestly cause a problem in Barbarian world because you’re always charging in first.

Kevin: Right.

Jarred: For the most part.

Kevin: Well that’s where Reckless Attack comes in. You give yourself Advantage.

Will: Exactly.

Jarred: Right, right.

Will: Swashbuckler too.

Jarred: (at same time) Or Swashbuckler yep.

Will: Ya know, if we’re not going with the Assassin, which you don’t have to, Swashbuckler also works.

Jarred: Right. But then you’re, but that one’s weird, because it doesn’t, you have to be isolated. It’s just you and one other creature.

Will: And with uh an incredibly mobile Barbarian you can make that happen.

Jarred: Right. Or you can, you can shove them 5 feet.

Will: Oh God.

Jarred: And then move up.

Will: God I hate you.

Jarred: And then get that Sneak Attack. You’re probably better off just smashing them with a Battleaxe.

Will: I would stop that immediately. But yeah no, this is uh, this is a class that could, I think this works mechanically very well. I think this works flavorwise, uh…

Jarred: Specifically.

Will: In a very very limited fashion.

Jarred: Right, right.

Will: I think there’s only a handful of ways you can justify being a Rogue/Barbarian. And I think we did go over them. Any creativity you add is gonna kinda stretch thin. Either side of it, it’s like, “How did you become a Barbarian?” “UH I really like to lift, and, pick pockets.” I jus…

Jarred: Or you get into that uh, reformed Rogue. But instead of going to something that actually makes sense they get ingrained in a tribal life and that’s it.

Will: Way into a cult.

Jarred: They’re just Barbarians from- There you go, a masculinity cult!

All: (laugh)

Jarred: But that’s, again, just feels like a stretch. But, I mean, if you really wanna do it, I mean, that’s an option. It just feels awkward. And, uh, one of the things that I hate, uh, it’s come almost every single time now. Where the, the, reformed idea. Um, it really prevents you from going back and forward between your levels. You kinda just go, “Okay, I’m leaving that life behind and I’m locking in this new one.” Otherwise, I dunno, it just feels cheesy and like you’re stretching something out.

Will: That’s the nature of multiclass though is just like: How do you switch between these, especially on a narrative level? You just kinda, you gotta fudge the truth I guess, is the best way to put it.

Jarred: But in this case I think it makes sense. If you’re a Barbarian going into the criminal underworld. I mean it’s just a matter, uh… I dunno. What is leveling up as a Barbarian? You understand your anger more? Or, I mean uh, it’s more the subclasses that it makes any sense with. Uh, but beyond that you just lifted more. You just keep on lifting. You get huge.

Will: That’s a good point.

Kevin: Mhm. Or like the, the idea of the Mastermind Barbarian multiclass. Where with the Masterline- the Mastermind, they are played like, you know, the leader of a thieve’s guild or something along those lines. And they’re, they’re always the ones in control of a situation, because that’s how the whole subclass is built. Um, they’re manipulative, they’re smart, they’re charismatic. But, if they are pushed in the wrong way, they flip a switch and go berserk.

Jarred: Yeah, but , what did you just say? They're intelligent, they’re charismatic? Oop! Those are our dump stats.

Kevin: ...You can still play them like that.

Will: Most criminals are gonna Int and Charisma so if you hit a ten in either of those you’re in like, the top 90%, let’s go with that.

Jarred and Kevin: (laugh)

Will: But you’re kinda going for like a Kingpin type style of character.

Kevin: Yeah.

Will: Like a huge, scary, brute looking man, but also got some uh, some thinking going on in that noggin.

Jarred: Okay, so, I’m expecting that to be, I guess, intimidation based more than anything. But if you want, like, Mastermind, that’s telling me like schemes. So that’s making me think Intelligence. Which, I just don’t see that being higher than ten.

Kevin: It’s, I guess that goes to something we can probably have a discussion on right now. Should you play your character that strongly to the attributes?

Jarred: Yes.

Kevin: I’d say no.

Jarred: Then that completely ruins the point-

Will: (interrupting) I’d say, it’s a little bit of both.

Kevin: Will finding the middle ground! That never happens.

Jarred: This is new, this is new.

Will: I like to be, uh, moderate whenever I get to disagree with everybody at the table.

Jarred and Kevin: (chuckle)

Jarred: Now, I mean, I get you’re saying where it can go both ways. You didn’t make any point, you just said, “I disagree and it’s in the middle.” But, the only times is if it’s like, “In these one one small circumstances this person can shine.” But if you’re saying, “Oh, they’re average or below-average Int, but they’re a criminal mastermind.”

Will: Well no, they’re not a criminal mastermind. What they are is a criminal leader of sorts. You’re looking at, we’re not talking an academic circle where they’re rocking eight Int. We’re talking about a bunch of thugs and, uh, just bastards, running around town, and you’re like, “You know what, I got bigger thoughts. I maybe not be able to do math fast, or remember my birthday, but I got ideas. I’ve got ideas about where we should go as a gang.

Jarred: Okay, but then they’re also, so that’s that actually goes against Intelligence, and you’re talking more Charisma. To be able to lead them. So now we’re saying everything is at least average.

Will: Well it’s gonna be, you’re gonna have to, uh… As an adventurer you’re always gonna roll a little average, compared to the general population you’re around.

Jarred: But that’s what skills are. They start off at basic person, right?

Will: Ten? Yes.

Jarred: Ten is supposed to be an average person. So if you’re saying you are a criminal leader, and I’m about as Charismatic as any other person you’d find. Seriously?

Will: Alright, so let’s say that, but I’m also, uh, 350 pounds of solid muscle, and I do have ambition. That’s, that replaces Charisma in it’s own way, but it doesn’t replace it in any kind of situation where you’d need Charisma. It’s like, “Oh, I’m gonna smash your tiny pickpocket skull if you don’t help me establish this gang.” But when you’re trying to convince a noble, “Hey, ya know, maybe we shouldn’t import all these Grey Renders.”

Jarred: (laughs)

Will: It’s like, you’re not going to be able to do it. Because you’re in a different environment. But your starting environment you can still play it off that way. I think that’s a stretch personally.

Jarred: Okay, so that’s, that’s all fine and dandy, but now we’re talking about, uh, maintaining your stats and roleplaying to your stats, uh, when you’re outside of your comfort zone. So when you’re in your comfort zone sure you can be a little bit more charismatic than you are, uh, on your sheet. Or a little bit more intelligent compared to your surrounding. But that doesn’t mean that you should be roleplaying, in general, as an intelligent, or as a charismatic person. I mean you can’t be more strong just because you think that it fits better with your character.

Will: I’ll give it to you, I’ll say this, but when you leave your, uh, your roleplaying “source”, so to speak, you join the adventuring world and it all kinda goes out the window. “I was an X.” And like, when you were an X, your stats didn’t really count, you were established that way. As soon as you join the adventuring world it kinda all went out the window and you do have to return to your comfort zone. You are no longer as important as you once were. You’re now outside your, wherever you grew up. You don’t have your friends out, you gotta go troll dungeons. So that’s the kinda exception. It’s only for backstory. It’s not your current character. You’re not the criminal mastermind anymore, you’re the adventurer who cracks skulls.

Jarred: Okay,I can get down with that. So, I mean, that’s more or less saying in your day to day adventuring life you’re going to be very uncharismatic, unintelligent, whatever it is those are just the two we’ve used as an example. Uh, but if for some reason you had a plot reason to go back home, everybody’s looking up to you as if, like, you’re the smartest guy around. You’re the funniest guy around. Whatever it is. I-I could see that working.

Will: Mhm.

Kevin: Or, in this particular case, you could just take the hits to some other stats and boost Charisma and/or Intelligence.

Jarred: (hesitant) Right.

Kevin: It’s obviously not mechanically, combat-wise, optimal, but, so what? If that’s the character you want to play.

Jarred: Yeah. Yeah of course there’s always that option, but you’re still just going to get everything to about average, and you’re right back to where we started with this.

Kevin: Well kinda, so if you…

Will: (interrupting) Above, average.

Kevin: Take like a Half-Orc which I’m sure gives you, what? Two Strength and…

Jarred: One Constitution, I think.

Kevin: So you, 14 in Strength, bumps you up to 16. Um, you can honestly do… so if you’re willing to, for Con to not be that high, you can do 11 Constitution, bumps you up to 12. Um, you get your 13 Dex or probably put it at 14 Dex. There’s still room to get Intelligence and Charisma up. Up there a bit. Or you can just say, “Screw it, I’m dumping Con. Constitution is going to be an eight.”  Which is always a scary character, but for that manipulative, criminal mastermind, who’s kind of a, like, “Don’t piss this person off because they’re going to go berserk. You can probably kill them but then everyone is just going to kill you.”

Jarred: How do you…

Kevin: (interrupting) Like a glass canon.

Jarred: Yeah. How do you relate Constitution to ambition? I’ve always tied those two stats in my head together. Because…

Will: (interrupting) Are you serious?

Kevin: Wait what?

Jarred: Yeah! Yeah, like the, like, your, personal, like…

Will: (interrupting) No. That’s not…

Jarred: Will to move on.

Will: It’s your ability to, like, not die.

Jarred: And that’s just it.

Kevin: It’s just, it’s a physical stat.

Will: It’s like your ability to eat spicy food, get way too drunk, and get hit in the kidneys and not go down.

Jarred: (laughing) And just keep on moving. Okay.

Will: It’s, that’s it. It’s your will to not pass out.

Jarred: Okay. So Charisma is where you’d tie any other type of, just, mental fortitude besides Wisdom and Intelligence. I guess...

Kevin: Not really.

Will: No… I mean, anything besides that, any statistics? Yes.

Jarred: Let me give you an analogy. Where Strength is to Intelligence, kind of mental stat, your mental intelligence, then Constitution would be Charisma.

Will: No.

Jarred: They kind of can switch off. No?

Will: Constitution is always put to Wisdom.

Jarred: Really?

Will: Wisdom is your, like, ability to resist being like, “Hey, you should stab yourself in the eyeball.”

Jarred: (laughs)

Will: “No, I don’t really wanna do that.”

Jarred: Okay.

Will: Constitution, “I don’t wanna shit my pants.” It’s identical like that.

Jarred: Okay.

Will: Dexterity and Charisma have always gone hand in hand.

Kevin: How?

Jarred: Maybe they’re just not the… [can’t hear: 36:06]

Will: It’s the equivalent.It’s, it’s mental versus physical agility, in a way.

Jarred: (skeptical) Okay.

Kevin: I, I think we’re trying to draw equivalents where there may not be any.

Jarred: I see where he’s going with this though. Let’s ride it. So (laughs), you’re saying that, like, your ability to weave yourself through social conversations and situations like that is also your ability… er, is in line with your ability to dodge out of physical things. Weave through physical things. Again, these are, these are really tough analogies to make.

Kevin: (talking in background)

Will: They’re soft relationships.

Jarred: Right, right.

Kevin: By the book, Charisma is force of personality. That’s it. It’s not, like, being manipulative and knowing how to, like, say the right thing over here and give a little tug over here, and get all this stuff to happen. It’s when you walk into the room and speak, how likely people are going to be to listen to you. And they may have a really negative reaction, they may not like you, you could be extremely unlikeable, but very charismatic. Will! Everybody hates Will.

Will: I’m a perfect example.

Kevin:  But he speaks good!

Will: Half, of people, hate me. The other half? Love me. And the other half? Just don’t even want to think about it. Perfect split. But, I will say this: Charisma is a precision art. Where Intele- where Intelligence isn’t. Cause you walk into that room, and you precisely give out these social kind of cues, and these social forces of personality. There is a precision to it that’s similar to Dexterity. Dexterity is hitting your target. Charisma is hitting your target. Intelligence and Strength have always got that kinda brute, raw strength, whether it be mental or physical. So I will say that there is a soft relation between these things that is completely meaningless.

Jarred and Kevin: (laugh)

Jarred: Totally!

Will: 100% autism.

Kevin: It doesn’t matter.

Jarred: It doesn’t, it doesn’t.

Will: No matter at all.

Kevin: Okay.

Jarred: Alright so anything left on Rogues and Barbarians?

Will: Uhhh err…

Jarred: I’ve said my piece.

Kevin: Yeah. Oh, uh, minor thing, so we had all these big discussions and all that, and then going back a little mechanical minor advantage. Um, with Barbarians, one of their cons of the class is they don’t do much out of combat. All of their stuff is combat related. So out of combat they’re just kinda… ya know they don’t have much to…

Will: (interrupting) “Me strong! Me hit!”

Kevin: Yeah they don’t have much utility. Uh, but even just one level dip into Rogue gets you Expertise. Which allows you to double your Proficiency bonus for certain skills. And if you keep going you’re gonna get, so you’re kinda mixing with the skill monkey.

Jarred: Right. Yeah that definitely…

Kevin: (interrupting) It’s gonna boost that side of the Barbarian.

Jarred: Yeah. And it definitely improves that, uh, Intimidation, as long as, uh, you’re trying to make some brute force Intimidations. Cause those aren’t always going to be Charisma. Intimidation is ones that really switches back and forward a lot. Because the dude standing with a battleaxe looking to crack your skull in - or slash your skull in? - doesn’t matter. Uh, he’s not doing it because look how intimidating his personality is. It’s because he’s got huge muscles.

Kevin: Mhm.

Jarred: Uh so that’s definitely useful. For the crime boss scenario.

Kevin: Definitely.

Will: Yeah I like it.

Kevin: Cool.

Jarred: Yeah, that, that’s it. I say let’s move on to our Monster of the Week, presented by Kevin Ode.

Kevin: Again. (pause) Jarred didn’t do his homework.

Will: Jarred did mixed homework.


Will: Time for the Yochlol! Let’s hear it Kevin. What have you got?

Kevin: The Yochlol. So this is a Demon, I’m probably saying it wrong. Uh, Challenge Rating ten, so, this isn’t necessarily like a campaign builder, like the Starspawn from last week, or anything like that. Um, but I thought it was a really cool monster. Uh, it’s from within the Abyss. They follow the demon lord of Lolth. Which is the Drow, um, god, goddess, basically. And a lot of Drow, actually, have the ability to bring one of these things into existence from the Abyss into the Material Plane. Um, the, in its raw form it’s this terrible tree-slime monster. They describe it as a pillar of yellow slime that looks like, just, like, a deformed tree with an eye. It’s, uh, page 65 of the Monster Manual. But it has the ability to shapechange at will into that of a female Drow. And it can speak Elvish and Undercommon and, it’s really, you can’t tell what it is when it does that. So you have this really strong, powerful, terrible demon that’s able to infiltrate areas. Um, you have no idea if you’re talking to a, an actual Drow or this terrible Yochlol demon. Generally if you’re speaking to a Drow they’re probably not going to be that friendly anyways. But I-I, there’s a lot of infiltration you can do. And then when it comes to the actual stats of this thing, um, its AC and Hit Points aren’t anything crazy, but it is a spellcaster. Uh, it has Magic Resistance, the ability to Spider Climb, um, and it can do Dominate Person which is always kinda scary. And then its attacks you have, um, some decent attacks. One thing you have this cool thing called Mist Form, and its other attacks are just kind of standard melee stuff. But um, it can do a decent amount of Poison damage, so it actually hits pretty hard for its level. And then, Mist Form, where it can transform into a toxic mist and can squeeze through a bunch of areas and get around and stuff like that. It’s immune to anything except for magic damage, flying speed of 30 feet, and if it ends its turn in another creature’s turn, which it can… space (correcting “another creature’s turn” from before). Which it can do in Mist Form, the creature must make a Con Save or become completely incapacitated. Whilst breathing in this mist.

Jarred: Uh, for what it’s worth, small correction there, it looks like if the other creature starts its turn there, not if the Yochlol ends its turn there. I know that’s really small.

Kevin: Oh okay.

Jarred: But if for some reason you enter it you don’t immediately get that.

Kevin: True.

Jarred: That is extremely interesting though. I… can just see so much with, uh, the infiltration.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: I really like that concept. It’s also terrifying.

Kevin: It is, it’s really scary lookin.

Will: It’s a… for a gigantic deformed slime tree, it is remarkably well rounding. It’s the kind of thing that you could see being summoned and thrown at you. And, it doesn’t come right at you, it takes different forms and it sneaks around, it does all the things you wouldn’t expect a slime tree to do.

Kevin: Mhm.

Jarred: Yeah it’d almost be good in a dungeon, to have it kinda following behind. And that’d be a, a good like, constant reminder that there’s something watching them. Uh, especially with that giant eye that it has. It’d just be a quick thing like, uh, ya know, “You turn around and see a big eye staring at you, but when you notice it it dodges out.” Um, I like it’s Web Walker ability. Where it ignores movement restrictions caused by webbing. That’s always one of the biggest issues, uh, with casting anything like Web or, along those lines, just because you’re now stopped yourself and-and ruining your movement speed. And it doesn’t have anything particularly crazy movement wise, it’s just 30 feet, but it’s nice to know that it can just rush right in there while you’re all stickied up. And cause some problems.

Kevin: Mhm. Yeah. And then, how this connects with the Drow, so, like, as I mentioned earlier, there are various Drow creatures that have the ability to summon one of these. So, I… I am DMing Out of the Abyss for these two and two others, where there’s a lot of Drow in it. So, I’m not gonna spoiling anything for these two, but I think it’s worth talking about. You can have a lone Drow, where it may seem like an easy fight. Like, “Of course, we’re just going to take the route of trying to attack and/or capture this thing or this, this person, this Drow.” Or whatever. And then, all of the sudden, here is this other Challenge Rating ten demon. Out of nowhere. Just completely fucking them up.

Jarred: Yeah, and it also, I mean, its attacks and everything don’t do a crazy amount of damage except for that Poison damage, uh, if it hits while it’s in spider form. That's an extra 6d6 Poison damage.

Will: I think if it just hits.

Jarred: Yeah. Just if it hits. There’s no save or anything, it’s just, if it’s in spider form it does that additional…

Will: (interrupting) No. Either one.

Jarred: “(Piercing in spider form) damage plus…”

Will: (interrupting) Is about the bite.

Kevin: It, so it makes two melee attacks. Um, so this thing could also have a spider form. If it’s in its tree form or, I imagine in Drow form it has a Slam attack. When it’s in spider form it’s a Bite attack.

Jarred: Right.

Kevin: They both do the same thing, but the Bite attack as a spider does Piercing damage, while the other thing is Bludgeoning damage.

Jarred: Oooohhhh

Kevin: And then regardless of which…

Jarred: It does that poison.

Kevin: Yes,

Will: Yep.

Jarred: Wow. Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: Um, and also just the fact that it’s got Resistance to basically everything.

Kevin: Mhm.

Jarred: Uh except for…

Will: The weird ones.

Jarred: It doesn’t have Acid. Is Acid damage?

Will: Yes it is.

Jarred: Okay that’s what I thought. Thank you. Uh, it doesn’t have Resistance to that, which is actually a little bit surprising. But, Cold, Fire, Lightning, and then Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing, that’s, and then of course Immunity to Poison. That definitely makes it a little bit more difficult to deal with. Um, unless you’ve got Psychic damage. (chuckles)

Kevin: Mhm. No one has Psychic, no Bards have Psychic damage.

Jarred: Yeah. And even then they don’t do much. Except for a couple things here and there. Uh, it’s also got really good Saves. Dex, Int, Wisdom, and Charisma. So…

Will: Dex, Int, Wisdom, and Charisma. That’s four Saving Throws.

Jarred: Yeah.

Will: That’s kinda ridiculous in its own way.

Kevin: Yep. Yep plus six, five, six, and six.

Jarred: Right and its…

Will: (interrupting) Crazy Darkvision, three languages, Deception plus ten.

Jarred: Yeah. Which is…

Will: (talking over each other) Cause Drow Female is not necessarily always going to be something you treat as innately hostile. It’s like, eight times out of ten, yeah, you’re probably gonna be at least pretty combat wary of it, but you’re not going to be like, “Oh crap, a giant poisonous slime tree.”

Kevin and Jarred: (laugh)

Will: So I think it’d be like, “Oh, yeah, totally, I’m her and I’m ready to leave the Drow and be your friend.” It’s like, “No, you’re a giant slime tree. But I didn’t know that because you deceived me.”

Jarred: (chuckles)

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: So that’s really cool. I hope you don’t pull that out on us any time soon.

Will: Yeah that would be terrible. I would hate that.

Kevin: (chuckles) Though at the level you guys are it would just kill you.

Will: It’d be pretty freaking close.

Jarred: Yeah.

Kevin: Level four?

Will: it’d be pretty friggen close.

Jarred: At least it’s not Resistant to like Radiant and Necrotic. Those ones.

Will: At least [Daerendel’s: sounds like a name but IDK what it is: 47:18] immune to that.

Kevin: Alright we will do a unofficial fight with your Out of the Abyss party against this thing. Just like in an open room. And we’ll see how close it is.

Will: We can do the, uh, yeah we can do a dream combat sequence.

Kevin: There we go.

Will: They’re like the, uh, classic Doom levels in Doom. You just like step out of the real world and just do something different.

Jarred: Hey, you want, uh, some, some more meaningfulness behind that? Uh, you make it so that if you lose, like, a TPK in the dream, you can gain a level of madness.

All: Ooouuu

Will: It is Spooktober.

Kevin: It is.

Will: So Kevin, you gotta bring that spooky.

Kevin: In Out of the Abyss? Oh, we can bring the spook.

Will: I’m ready.

Jarred: (laughs)

Will: I’m fucking terrified my friend, by Yochlol dreams.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah actually, I… (sighs) Out of the Abyss can get really over the top and grotesque. Like, it’s, there, there’s some stuff coming that’s heavy.

Jarred: From written? Or from…

Kevin: Bit of both. It’s… (sighs again)

Will: Half of it’s Kevin’s weird disgusting imagination.

Jarred: (laughs)

Kevin: It’s how it’s written really lends itself to, and some of it just as written is really terrible.

Jarred: Yeah. Even so far it’s like, it’s just been creepy a lot of times. Uh, I-I don’t want to give any spoilers but, just, some of the things we’ve dealt with just leave that uneasy feeling. It, it really does a great job of making you feel like you’re in an entirely different world.

Kevin: That’s being overran by Demons.

Jarred: That’s being overran by Demons

Kevin: The Underdark is already kind of a scary, gross, kinda creepy place for surface dwellers like ourselves. Uh, but then that, and… I don’t think this is giving anything away, in Out of the Abyss, Demons are spilling into the Underdark.

Jarred: Yes.

Kevin: And Demons are just terrible. Like I-I read through that first chapter inMordenkainen’s Tome of Foes.

Jarred: Yep.

Kevin: Which goes into Devils versus Demons in their war, and…

Jarred: That book really peaks in the first chapter.

Kevin: Oh, (laughs) I think it’s [pretty good really: unsure, is quiet: 49:23]. I’m on like page six.

Will: I mean Devils versus Demons is very hard to follow up on.

Kevin and Jarred: Yeah.

Kevin: But, no, yeah, the Demons are just, just terrible.

Jarred: Yep.

Kevin: Like, oh my God.

Jarred: It really reminds me of the Doom game though, uh, game-suh (emphasizing the plural.) Where it’s just these hideous, terrifying creatures that just pop into an area and just begin destroying everything without purpose.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jarred: It’s great.

Kevin: Yeah and just, their effect, their, their presence, warps the world to their likes.

Jarred: Yeah, yep.

Kevin: Which is very much you’re now seeing in Out of the Abyss. In the spoopy, spoopy underdark.

Will: That could just be those weird little Dark Gnome things.

Jarred: I think you mean the…

Will: The Derro.

Jarred: The Derro, yeah.

Will: They’re just, Dark Gnomes, Derro, one’s an insane version with beards.

Jarred: (laughs)

Kevin: Yeah pretty different.

Jarred: Alright any final thoughts on the Yugoloth?

Will: That’s not even close.

Jarred: Yugo… Yukol…

Kevin: Yochlol.

Will: Yochlolol.

Jarred: The Yoglomayo.

Will: Y-O-C-H-L-O-L. Is it the “tch” sound, “Yotchlol”? Could that be it?

Jarred: Yulchmayo.

Will: Yolchlomayo.

Kevin: Yotch mayonnaise.

Jarred: Yes!

Will: Yotch mayonnaise.

Kevin: Yes. That’s it.

Jarred: Yeah any final thoughts? (laughs)

Will: He’s cool.

Kevin: Yeah.

Will: It’s like a slime tree and also a spider.

Kevin: Yeah none of that specifically. I guess, I mean, if we wanna discuss just Demons as a whole there’s more. There’s so many here.

Will: That sounds like, uh, plenty of room.

Kevin: Yeah we will not get into any specifics, it just, I like Demons coming forth in a campaign.

Jarred: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah.

Will: Fuckin weirdo.

Kevin: (at same time) That’s cool stuff.

Will: (mocking) “I like demons.”

Jarred: Alright, thanks everyone for listening, you’ve been great.

Kevin: Woooo.

Will: They didn’t even participate.

Jarred: They didn’t participate but they raised our spirits.

Will: No one listens to this except the people you kinda know listening to it.

Jarred: Nyeehhh stop the recording!

Will: Shut it down!

Kevin: We have thousands, thousands of listeners.

Will: (quietly) Jesus Christ…

Kevin: Do the Outro.

Will: What’s the Outro? Oh yeah!

Will: Next time, on, Monsters and Multiclass…

Jarred: I don’t know what monster we’re doing…

Will: Oh fucking Christ!


Will: Next time, on, Monsters and Multiclass.

Jarred: Next week join us as we dive into the Barbarian/Monk multiclass, as well as a look at a new monster of the week, the Oblek.

Kevin: ...ks. Oblex.

Jarred: Oblex.

Speakers and Contact Info

Kevin Ode

Jarred Bournigal

Will Meldon

Monster’s and Multiclass Twitter

Monster’s and Multiclass Subreddit